08: From Shutdowns to Second Acts: How to Build Your Next Chapter with Love Rutledge

When a career crisis hits, it might just be the push you needed.

In this episode of Don’t Fk*n Shrink, Daffney Allwein talks with Love Rutledge, Executive Coach, host of the FedUpward Podcast, and founder of FedUpward Coaching. After more than 25 years in federal service, Love helps government professionals and executives reinvent their careers, build clarity, and thrive through transitions.

Together, they unpack what it means to find purpose beyond your job title, navigate uncertainty with confidence, and turn change into opportunity. Whether you’re navigating a layoff, a government shutdown, or just craving something new, this conversation will remind you that you’re never starting over — you’re starting differently.

✨ Learn more:
 FedUpwardCoaching.com | FormerGov.com | AIDCoaching.com | FedFam.org

Transcript

[00:00:00:10 - 00:00:13:15]
Daffney  Allwein
 shutdowns happen. They have historically happened as long as I've been in DC. Like I said, this one might feel a little differently or maybe there's a little more angst about whether or not your position will still be there. Don't sit on your hands. Don't shrink.

[00:00:13:15 - 00:00:35:00]
Love Rutledge
 Absolutely. It is a time to reevaluate what your priorities are, figure out whether or not a new position or different type or style of working is right for you and then to go after that. I mean, the market's terrible. Let's be honest. We know that. It's tough. It's tough now. But if you needed a nudge, this is your forced nudge, right?

[00:00:35:00 - 00:00:58:21]
Daffney  Allwein
 Yes, that's a good way to say this. This is out of the nest, buddy. Out of the nest. Hey friends, and thanks for being here for another episode of Don't Fucking Shrink podcast.

[00:01:00:02 - 00:01:45:11]
Daffney  Allwein
 With me today, one of my cohort and fellow coaches, love, she is actually a former Fed recently retired and she's here to talk to us a little bit about what we're seeing in the news, in the cycles, and maybe some of the fear that we're all feeling about moving forward and feeling like we have a really strong beacon forward on some of the things going on outside of us. So love is actually a speaker. She is a consultant. She's a mom. And who better to ask these questions to and really dig in about what's our way forward. Hi, love.

[00:01:45:11 - 00:02:06:03]
Love Rutledge
 Hi, Daphne. Thank you so much for having me on the show. Really been looking forward to this. I think there are a lot of unique issues facing moms and caregivers right now, as so many of us are transitioning out of federal service, either by choice or not by choice. And there are so many things we could cover in this discussion today. So I'm excited to get started.

[00:02:07:06 - 00:02:25:13]
Daffney  Allwein
 You hit the nail on the head. I think that's the big thing. There are so many things we could cover. But you know, one of the biggest topics that have come up is how people are being paid, how people are being compensated, who's still working. Now, I know in your former, just before you left, you were essential staff, right?

[00:02:26:13 - 00:03:24:20]
Love Rutledge
 I was up until my most recent position. So I've always had to work during shutdowns or furloughs. Had to go in during most of them because I worked in essential positions. So my most recent position, I was not considered essential. But my heart goes out to people who still have to work and aren't getting paid. There's a lot of pending legislation coming from all sides, hoping, you know, hopeful that it goes through and folks who are in the office as well as those who are at home, because you don't get to make the decision on whether or not you're classified as essential, that everybody gets back pay for this time, because this is beyond your control if you're a federal employee. I mean, it's just a terrible situation. But yeah, I mean, it's hard not to have a bitter taste in your mouth if you are working full time and not getting paid. Public servants are amazingly dedicated people and everybody tries to keep positive attitude. But it's hard to do that when you can't pay your bills.

[00:03:26:10 - 00:03:36:09]
Daffney  Allwein
 Well said. Well said. I mean, I know a lot of people are feeling because we're in the DC area, right? And federal employees are across the country too, feeling this way.

[00:03:37:18 - 00:03:42:10]
Daffney  Allwein
 So this is not our first rodeo, right? This is not our first shutdown.

[00:03:43:19 - 00:03:50:03]
Daffney  Allwein
 I've been in the DMV for 20 years now. And I know you have to. What feels different about this shutdown?

[00:03:50:03 - 00:04:10:15]
Love Rutledge
 Does it feel different? Yeah, I think it does feel different because there's no specific end in sight. I mean, usually it's okay, we know this is going to last a certain amount of time. This feels far more uncertain. And I think folks are also concerned that they're going to get fired while they're furloughed. And that is a new wrinkle that folks just haven't had to worry about before.

[00:04:12:14 - 00:04:29:21]
Love Rutledge
 And it's hard to figure out, okay, do you keep your kids in daycare? Because if you take them out, because you can't pay for it, then you lose your slot. And the waiting lists are a year long. So what do you do? Do you go into debt to continue to pay to have your kids in care, even though you're at home?

[00:04:31:00 - 00:04:35:09]
Love Rutledge
 Get their spot. It's a really tough position to be in. Yeah.

[00:04:35:09 - 00:04:43:12]
Daffney  Allwein
 And like you said, the ripple is just exponential, right? You know, a lot of people watching the news or we're seeing it from their couch, right?

[00:04:44:17 - 00:04:54:14]
Daffney  Allwein
 Are not feeling the effects in that same way. And they're not even thinking about the exponential aspects of childcare. And what's next for those?

[00:04:56:01 - 00:05:03:11]
Daffney  Allwein
 You've been in this situation before, right? Is there any words of advice, right? In this context? Any thoughts?

[00:05:03:11 - 00:05:54:08]
Love Rutledge
 Gosh, I mean, that's tough. It's not going to last forever. We don't know how long it will last. Hang in there. Look for resources. My podcast is certainly one I'm trying to push resources out for folks who are looking for new jobs. There are a lot of civil service and government adjacent groups like the Volcker Alliance and the Partnership for Public Service and others who have websites with a lot of great resources, who some are providing small grants to federal employees who just need something to help them get by for another month. This weekend coming up, I don't know when this is going to air later. But before this episode comes out, there are a couple of food drives that are happening in the DC area so that federal employees who are having a hard time feeding their families can come and get food and diapers and things like that, necessities that they need.

[00:05:55:14 - 00:06:00:21]
Love Rutledge
 So those concerns are real. There are resources out there. They're nowhere enough to meet the need.

[00:06:02:00 - 00:06:12:16]
Love Rutledge
 But go and look for those organizations that are supporting federal employees. And then obviously contact your elected representatives and let them know what's going on with you and how you're feeling.

[00:06:13:20 - 00:06:45:08]
Love Rutledge
 I think that's really important. And you said earlier something that struck me that most people, private citizens who are not affiliated with federal service, they're not contractors supporting the federal government, maybe haven't felt the effects of the shutdown yet. But I think that's coming really soon because there are a lot of services where they might have been running on fumes from a little bit of leftover funding from the last fiscal year. And that's running out. And so a lot of organizations that depend on different services throughout the country are going to see some of those services start to wane.

[00:06:45:08 - 00:07:00:02]
Daffney  Allwein
 Yeah, I think that's it. It's one of those things where you mentioned it. And thank you for suggesting those resources. And we're going to put those into the show notes and make sure everybody who is a federal employee has opportunity. You will see this episode on Halloween.

[00:07:01:14 - 00:07:07:14]
Daffney  Allwein
 And hopefully, fingers crossed that this is actually over and that we are just doing this posthumously, right?

[00:07:07:14 - 00:07:14:08]
Love Rutledge
 I so hope that this is over by then. But if it's not, we'll have resources and links for you.

[00:07:14:08 - 00:07:40:23]
Daffney  Allwein
 And in that promise, I'm going to continue to update those links. So Love and I are going to keep talking about this to give people more resources. Please also know that by tuning into Herd Podcast, which is fed upward, is that correct? That's it. The Fed Upward Podcast. That you can gain those resources and get a little more timely information about what's coming up and what is in that realm.

[00:07:42:04 - 00:08:04:07]
Daffney  Allwein
 I think we hit the nail on the head today, right? Is that the people who think this is a political game, right? And we're not talking politics today, but the people who don't actually feel the effects of what a shutdown is. This is something that everyone's going to eventually start to feel, like you said, with resources and with infrastructure and things like that. You can't take your kid to the zoo.

[00:08:04:07 - 00:08:31:10]
Love Rutledge
 Yeah, I mean, it starts with you can't take your kid to the zoo or maybe to a national park, take a trip that you had planned. But now, even simple things like flying anywhere in the country, TSA agents are getting paid. A lot of people are calling in sick, understandably. And so you're seeing longer lines at airports. I mean, that's just the tip of the iceberg. But there are so many ways that public servants impact our daily lives. And we are going to start seeing those impacts more tangentially.

[00:08:31:10 - 00:09:04:06]
Daffney  Allwein
 Yeah. And I think with the holidays coming, people having more, more, you know, more travel ahead, more things to think about. We, you know, you don't think that it's going to affect you. You think it's just a story on the news. But, you know, eventually, and I'm not saying that to scare you, we're really just making you aware that it is not just this tiny little DC picture. It's not just this political fight. This is really the infrastructure of how our country works. Yeah. And resources are necessary. And so we're going to keep pushing that. And I'm going to keep reminding people that your podcast is a great resource for that.

[00:09:05:12 - 00:09:09:14]
Daffney  Allwein
 So tiny pivot on this one, because we want to make sure that, you know, this, this is about,

[00:09:10:17 - 00:09:19:12]
Daffney  Allwein
 this is also a time for reflection for folks who are federal employees or are connected to the government in that way, professionally.

[00:09:20:15 - 00:09:28:21]
Daffney  Allwein
 Is this a good time to pivot? Is this a good time to start looking for another job, another something in the corporate or the commercial realm in your mind?

[00:09:30:08 - 00:11:17:18]
Love Rutledge
 It could be. It depends on what your expertise is. I mean, there are federal employees who have expertise in every subject matter area under the sun, right? We do everything as federal employees. I think first it's important to look at your own, you know, specific and individual financial situation. I was incredibly fortunate to be able to retire after 25 years of service. I had just enough years, literally within a month of the deadline, the cutoff for being able to take advantage of the voluntary early retirement authority offer that was given in the department that I worked in. A lot of people are not so fortunate. And so some people can't pivot. I mean, let's be honest, they need their benefits. Maybe they have a spouse who is in a job where they don't have benefits and they've got to stay put regardless of what might be going on. Healthcare, children. Yep. Yep. I mean, healthcare is huge. So let's first recognize that a lot of people don't have a choice. Second, I think it's also important for folks to reevaluate before they think about whether or not they want to pivot to a different line of work. What do they think of when they are describing their identity, when they're describing what's important to them? Because so many people who are career public servants think that they are the mission. And when that mission is gone, if they have been involuntarily, you know, forced out of their jobs, they are a little lost, unmoored, don't know what to do because they have personally identified with that mission. So if you find yourself in that boat, then if you have to make the pivot, then you've got to look for other places where you can still focus on that same mission and be of service, just not at the federal level, whether that's state government, local government, nonprofits.

[00:11:19:12 - 00:11:53:23]
Love Rutledge
 You know, that's where a lot of people are looking. And I will offer, I just did a podcast with Brian Levine, who is a former federal employee, and now has created a website and an organization called former gov, where people who are no longer on the roles can kind of create a profile and say, here's my area of expertise. And employers can come and look at that and say, Hey, I need a guy or a gal who has this specific expertise, I need somebody on a board, I need somebody as an advisor to help connect people who are looking for your expertise

[00:11:55:01 - 00:12:06:22]
Love Rutledge
 with folks who are hiring. So go check out former gov, it's former gov.com. That might give you some ideas of, you know, how to shape your messaging. So you can look at what other people have done.

[00:12:08:07 - 00:12:12:10]
Love Rutledge
 But yeah, I mean, there are so many different ways people can pivot right now.

[00:12:13:12 - 00:12:14:01]
Love Rutledge
 There are

[00:12:16:00 - 00:12:30:00]
Love Rutledge
 so many ways to do individual contract work, but it's hard, you've got to get out and hustle for individual jobs, right. And federal employees are generally not necessarily skilled in pitching themselves because they never do that. And so it all takes a lot of confidence.

[00:12:31:02 - 00:12:40:21]
Love Rutledge
 And I will say many of us are struggling with how we sell ourselves as a product when we have been working supporting a very broad mission.

[00:12:40:21 - 00:12:41:14]
Daffney  Allwein
 Yes.

[00:12:42:21 - 00:12:51:07]
Daffney  Allwein
 These they're so this is transition that you're sort of in because you are doing the consulting, you are doing the coaching end of things now in the speaking, which is huge.

[00:12:53:00 - 00:13:21:13]
Daffney  Allwein
 You're probably one realizing how many skills you really have. I think it's one of those things when you're in an organization for so long, you've worn this hat, you've worn that hat, you haven't thought about it. But when you go into the commercial market for your skills, right, either as a rehired annuend or whatever the case may be, you realize that you actually probably have done six or seven other jobs that then your title. So is that what you're seeing? Is that what you're noticing?

[00:13:21:13 - 00:13:36:23]
Love Rutledge
 Yeah, I mean, I can say just in my own household, my husband who works in private industry has gone nuts going back and forth with me saying, No, you've got to describe this particular experience you have in a much more grandiose way.

[00:13:38:00 - 00:13:53:22]
Love Rutledge
 And put it in consultant ease, right? Right. So first translating what you do and what skills you have into a vernacular that is easily understandable in the outside world is tough. I mean, just doing that. Just rewriting your resume.

[00:13:53:22 - 00:14:42:15]
Daffney  Allwein
 The acronym, the acronyms alone, like, right, right? Like, sometimes I look at the or I talk to a client who has a federal background and the acronyms are just I'm like, what does this mean, like to the outside world to somebody who's not in the government, you know, circle, we don't know what some of these these acronyms are. So I think that's really cool that your husband was like, let's take a different approach. Let's take a different view, because it's not necessarily that you're rewriting your resume in a any disingenuous way. It's just, it's a language, right? Like, it literally is a language that the corporate or the commercial or whatever has their own language. And you have to find that parallel between your government experience language. And what the other other agencies and industries are looking at? Is that, is that helpful, you think? Yes, 100%.

[00:14:42:15 - 00:15:07:21]
Love Rutledge
 100%. We also take for granted the scope of the jobs that we've had within government. Because I know just like I said, these conversations with my husband where he's like, no, you need to talk about the fact that you did, you know, talent management strategy for an organization that has millions of employees. Yes. Right. That sounds way more impressive than, you know, I was the chief of staff for a chief talent officer.

[00:15:09:12 - 00:15:26:01]
Daffney  Allwein
 So it's true. It's true. And leveraging those relationships too. But that's a whole different chapter, right? Like, so we're telling folks, if you're rewriting your resume, if you are pivoting right now, if you're, if you're going to take that chance to say, this doesn't feel like the right path for me, or this, this, this government work is not aligned for me anymore.

[00:15:27:05 - 00:15:59:01]
Daffney  Allwein
 Changing the language, right, of your resume to fit the industry that you want to be part of, right. And also taking that 100 yard scope that like, you very humbly, right, we're like, Oh, well, you know, I did all these really big things. But you know, it was just part of the job. It was just part because that is a federal worker sort of set, right, where it's like, it's just part of the mission. It's just part of the mission. I just put that hat on, because that's what we needed in the moment. Right. But not thinking about that from a financial selling yourself position.

[00:16:00:02 - 00:16:02:07]
Daffney  Allwein
 Can you give us a good example? Like, could you, you know,

[00:16:03:21 - 00:16:51:23]
Love Rutledge
 oh, it's tough. I mean, just thinking about going to job interviews and talking about your experience in a positive way, to someone who has no understanding of the type of work that you did, is a first step. So, you know, having conversations with folks in your neighborhood or within your family who don't know what you do, figuring out what their questions are is a good first step. Because if they ask you about something, and they don't understand what you're talking about, odds are someone on the commercial side of things might not know either. So, you know, would your grandma understand your resume? If not, you probably need to rework it in a way that is more easily digestible. I know that sounds simplistic, but a lot of us are struggling with that right now. How to be themselves in this pivot.

[00:16:51:23 - 00:17:28:00]
Daffney  Allwein
 Well, also just talking about yourself. I think resumes are always tough for a lot of people because, you know, they, you know, federal wise, right? Like these are your responsibilities, right? This is what you're actually responsible for. And this is what you're being asked to do. Right? Like a lot of people who had government positions never really thought of themselves as a manager, right? Never really thought of themselves as a spokesperson. Never really thought about, because that's just part of their job is to go talk on that panel or to handle this really big

[00:17:29:07 - 00:18:25:09]
Daffney  Allwein
 event, you know, two, three times a year, right? You know, I know then there's different agencies that put on these big events every year, but you didn't really put on your hat before and think about that you were actually an event coordinator, right? Well, I'm just a federal employee who talks on a panel who talks to, you know, a hundred thousand people a year, but you're not thinking that way because you're like, wait a second. I'm just, you know, I'm just chief of staff, you know, just, I was just the chief of staff. That's yeah. So just, just putting in that context that me as a civilian looks at what you're actually doing talks about what you're actually, you're, you're effective, right? Not only just in your organization, but in the world and then putting it into words. And I think sometimes that's a coaching conversation. I'm sure you're bumping into that too. Like I am. We're giving people that perspective of your effect is much greater than what your resume says. And you need that resume to reflect.

[00:18:26:15 - 00:18:30:15]
Daffney  Allwein
 Does that, is that fair? Is that? Yeah, that's absolutely fair.

[00:18:30:15 - 00:18:35:08]
Love Rutledge
 That's absolutely fair. So for folks who are looking at considering transitioning,

[00:18:36:12 - 00:18:50:14]
Love Rutledge
 figuring out the right vocabulary to use as critical reassessing who you are, who you, how you describe yourself and how you pitch yourself is really, so these are all obstacles we're facing.

[00:18:50:14 - 00:19:49:20]
Daffney  Allwein
 And we don't always want to jump from the, you know, the boiling water into another pan either. Right. So I think you had a really good, like in your coaching and my coaching, I'm sure you're seeing people are like, what I loved about this job or what I loved about this position and what I didn't love about this position. So being very intentional about where you're applying now, maybe like we said, maybe you did do those two, three big events every year, but it gave you such anxiety and it just didn't align for you. Right. I know that's not your case, but you know, it's one of those things where this is again, another great pivot opportunity where there were things very dynamically in your current position or former, right? That aligned for what you enjoy doing or what you connected or you felt like your mission was. And now here's that pivot opportunity where you're like, have this information, but maybe I'd rather consult other than, you know, speak. Maybe I would rather what is that, is that what you're seeing too? A hundred percent.

[00:19:49:20 - 00:19:58:10]
Love Rutledge
 I mean, just from my own personal experience, to give you a little bit of insight into the kind of work I did for a big chunk of my career, I did budget and financial management work.

[00:19:59:18 - 00:20:13:02]
Love Rutledge
 And what I really enjoyed during the majority of my career was the focus on human capital, talent development, learning and development, and the more coachy type, you know,

[00:20:14:19 - 00:20:37:15]
Love Rutledge
 activities. And so now a lot of the firms that are hiring want someone who's doing business development. And I'm like, well, can I coach the people who do business development? Can I help focus on what skills they need to develop to be successful? Because selling and doing business development outright might not be as rewarding, personally.

[00:20:38:17 - 00:21:03:22]
Love Rutledge
 So those are the kinds of things I think people are facing. So if you worked in particular, like if you worked for the Department of Defense, Department of Energy, you know, there are a lot of big firms out there selling, and they're looking for people to sell. They're not looking for people to do policy work. Right. They are focused on the bottom line. So how can you rejigger your experience and the way you talk about your experience to be useful in that context? It's a challenge.

[00:21:03:22 - 00:23:20:08]
Daffney  Allwein
 I love that word. I love jigger. I haven't heard that in forever. No, I love that. I think one of the things that I learned so dynamically about love when we did our coaching certification and grads are like together is that she really does have a heart for people. So even though she's got these big, her love is like the perfect name for her. But like she sees people for who they are at their core. And I think that's one of those things where if you are taking coaching clients and you are in that federal space, you're looking for a federal coach, love is definitely the person, not only with the background and resources to be empathetic about what you're talking about, but she's so great at dynamically doing exactly what we just talked about where this is your skillset. You may not be a salesperson, but you are such a dynamic cheerleader who sees people at their core and what is ahead. So you're really kind of giving, creating a beacon for people, right? In that way where you're like, "Hey, I see your resume. I see what you enjoy doing. I see what you really want to be impactful with." And yeah, you're right. It does feel a little bit like hard to sell yourself. And it does feel a little exposed to like come out and just say what it is. Because when you're in a federal position, you are the half. You are the half they give you. And you are just so much more than that position. So if you could, and I know we sort of said this, I think giving people hot tips, right? If you're ready to pivot, find yourself a coach, right? A hundred percent. Find yourself a coach. And I mean that in the context of don't waste your time. Have a consult with a coach. It doesn't require you to have a 12-month commitment with somebody. It's not a therapy. This is just you gaining clarity and actually having somebody say to you out loud, "These are your strong suits. These are your values." This is what you dynamically bring to a company. Having that voice, right? Because it's hard to do to yourself, right? Especially if you're still in the realm of this is my lane. I stay in my lane government service, right? That's number one. Find yourself a coach. Find yourself somebody who has that experience, has that background.

[00:23:21:16 - 00:23:31:00]
Daffney  Allwein
 And also know that your value is maybe a little bit higher in the commercial or in the corporate group, right? Is that fair?

[00:23:31:00 - 00:24:25:02]
Love Rutledge
 Yes. So first on the coaching front, I would love to coach you, right? If you're listening to this. But I will also say if you are a former USAID employee, ICF certified coaches, International Coaching Federation certified coaches have formed a coalition supporting specifically USAID former employees called AID Coaching. Lift that up. I know they're on LinkedIn. And they're offering free coaching to people who are specifically in the development community to help them make this pivot. So while I would love to coach you, I want to make sure that people know there are free resources out there who are looking to support trans and female employees specifically in that the development space. Also our colleagues. I like that. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. And also thank you for the kind words. I do think it's important to see people for who they are, what their strengths are, because they often don't know what their strengths are.

[00:24:26:05 - 00:25:01:23]
Love Rutledge
 So you know, you can take an assessment to help you figure out what those strengths are, but you're more than an assessment set of assessment results. And, you know, I think a coach can help you hone in on what your strengths are and what you actually enjoy versus what you're good at, because sometimes those things align, sometimes they don't. And again, whether your highest priority is I've got to go make money because I need to pay my bills, or maybe you're lucky enough to have a spouse who has stable employment, and you can throttle back a little bit and focus on the things you truly enjoy doing as opposed to the things you have to do to make money.

[00:25:03:17 - 00:25:13:22]
Love Rutledge
 That changes the trajectory of your job search in really tangible ways. So having those candid conversations with a coach is always helpful.

[00:25:13:22 - 00:25:29:03]
Daffney  Allwein
 Yeah. I think number two is, and I think some of us have to be cognizant of the fact that there are some security protocols. But in the way that your resources can also be the relationships you already have.

[00:25:30:16 - 00:26:05:09]
Daffney  Allwein
 Yeah. So you probably see that more than anything else, but you know, in the shifting to corporate shifting to private or shifting to consulting, your relationships are something that or someone that you might already know, you might already have worked with, right? And this is probably within the constructs of your security clearances too, for a number of folks, right? These are conversations you could be having with outside folks and say, I can't give you any of my you know, dynamic information, I can't give you, you know, this, but I can give you my experience on

[00:26:06:14 - 00:26:21:02]
Daffney  Allwein
 reading and understanding what that means for the long game of that industry. So even knowing that leaning into the resources you've already have, federal workers, the relationships you already have outside of your government work could be a good strategy too.

[00:26:21:02 - 00:26:43:22]
Love Rutledge
 Yeah, absolutely. Not being afraid to pull your networks is really important right now. And again, this is something I think people are always comfortable doing. But you need to let people know you are looking for a job if you want to make a transition, they cannot help you if you don't tell them. And so I'm not a huge fan of the open to work banner on LinkedIn.

[00:26:45:07 - 00:27:35:10]
Love Rutledge
 No, I didn't do that. But I did, I did, you know, post something that said, Hey, I'm making this transition. And here's why that's meaningful to me. But I've really focused on one on one conversations, coffees, lunches, reaching out to people directly via email to say, Hey, I'm making this transition. If there's something that you see that you think might be a good fit, please let me know. And also, how can I help you right now? What are you working on? What's important to you? Because you might be able to be of service to someone now that can help you get a job in the near future or down the road, if they can sing your praises for something that you've done to support whatever their initiatives are. So that could be somebody you worked with previously, that could be one of your children's friends, parents, someone at your church, your synagogue, the PTA, whatever that is, pull your networks and let them know that you're looking. People can't help you if they don't know.

[00:27:35:10 - 00:28:02:08]
Daffney  Allwein
 And don't nothing is much better as a pride situation. But you know, like you said, it's hard, it is really hard to say, I need help. Right? It's a it's very, very easy to sort of shrink and just sort of take what's coming to you. But this is a huge opportunity in my mind, right? But if you are one of the folks who's not working and at home, as opposed to being essential and just having to go in anyway, rush your fingers,

[00:28:03:15 - 00:28:11:17]
Daffney  Allwein
 this is no better opportunity in my mind, right to, like you said, pulse those resources to say, I'm not going to work today, but you know what I can do?

[00:28:12:22 - 00:28:49:20]
Daffney  Allwein
 I can go have coffee with this group, I can go visit this this organization, I can reach out to I can send an email to this person, I think, realizing and not just taking it on the chin, realizing that shutdowns happen, they have historically happened as long as I've been in DC. Like I said, this one might feel a little differently, or maybe maybe there's a little more angst about whether or not your position will still be there. Don't sit on your hands. Don't shrink. This is this is such an opportunity to look big picture at what you want this next 10-15 years to look like in your career.

[00:28:49:20 - 00:29:14:15]
Love Rutledge
 Absolutely. Absolutely. It is a time to reevaluate what your priorities are, figure out whether or not a new position or different type or style of working is right for you and then to go after that. I mean, the market's terrible. Let's be honest, we know that it's tough. It's tough now. But if you needed a nudge, this is your forced nudge, right?

[00:29:14:15 - 00:29:36:03]
Daffney  Allwein
 Yes, that's a good way to say this. This is out of the nest, buddy. So if you've, if you have one of those positions that you've been complaining about, you haven't been happy and you haven't, this is like you said, that is a big push. Don't shrink, get out of the nest and see what's available to you. See what you can do with this time. How can you invest this time in the best way possible?

[00:29:37:12 - 00:29:47:04]
Love Rutledge
 Yeah. And one last thing before we wrap up, we have to talk about upscaling and reskilling. I just want to throw that out because a lot of us who are maybe a little more mature,

[00:29:48:11 - 00:30:12:12]
Love Rutledge
 you know, don't have AI skills. We haven't had to do that kind of stuff. So look at what free certifications are available because there are some companies and academic institutions that are offering free or reduced price certifications for displaced federal workers. So you know, Google your local universities, see what online programs are out there because they might be free for you right now. Brilliant.

[00:30:12:12 - 00:30:58:14]
Daffney  Allwein
 Brilliant. Can we keep this conversation going? I would love that. Okay. So we want to support you, professionals in the federal range and maybe maybe just adjacent to the federal. And we're going to keep this conversation going in the weeks to come too. Love, thank you so much for being with me. We've talked about being on podcasts together like for years now. And I feel like this is the culmination of exactly what we needed to come together for. So thank you for joining us on this episode. Listen, if there's somebody that you know that can really benefit from this story, from this information and these listing resources that we have, please share it with a friend and subscribe because love and I are going to keep this conversation going. Thank you so much, Daphne. Thank you. All right. We'll see you, everybody.

[00:31:02:05 - 00:31:22:08]
Daffney  Allwein
 Thanks for joining the conversation today. I'm so glad you're here. And if you know a friend who could benefit from this conversation, the share button is just below. And while you're there, hit subscribe. We want to keep you in the loop and keep you part of this conversation because none of us do this alone. Talk to you soon.