Don’t F*kn Shrink

Raising an Autistic Son and Rising From Abuse with Shelly McLaughlin

• Daffney Allwein • Episode 4

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In this episode of Don’t F*kn Shrink, Daffney Allwein sits down with Shelly McLaughlin, Program Director at Pathfinders for Autism, mom to a 23 year old autistic son, and a fierce advocate for families and communities.

Shelly shares the devastating moment when a doctor told her that her son would never function in society, and how she refused to shrink in the face of that label. From navigating schools to helping Hunter discover his passion in film editing, her story is one of resilience and relentless advocacy.

But Shelly’s path was not without personal hurdles. She bravely opens up about surviving domestic abuse, the red flags she wishes she had recognized sooner, and how isolation can be the most dangerous weapon of an abuser. Today, she uses her voice to train law enforcement, educate schools, and support families so that no one has to feel alone.

👉 You can support Shelly’s work and help families across the country:

SARC is a lifeline for victims and survivors of domestic violence, sexual violence, and stalking by providing safe haven, advocacy, resources, and hope in Harford County Maryland. https://www.sarc-maryland.org/

✨ Takeaways:

  • How small accommodations can transform an autistic child’s school experience
  • Why building community support is the lifeline parents need
  • The power of law enforcement training to create safer interactions
  • Red flags of narcissistic abuse and why speaking out is survival
  • Why not shrinking is the most impactful choice we can make

[00:00:00:21 - 00:00:10:02]
Shelly McLaughlin
 And the doctor looked at me and said, your son will never function in society and you need to accept that now.

[00:00:10:02 - 00:00:18:08]
Daffney  Allwein
 Oof. Oof. Okay. That was a pill. Okay. How does that feel now? Like thinking about that moment.

[00:00:20:04 - 00:00:24:16]
Shelly McLaughlin
 I so badly want to take my son back to him and say, you should,

[00:00:24:16 - 00:00:56:07]
Daffney  Allwein
 Welcome to Don't F*** with Shrink, the podcast where we stop playing small and start showing up big. I'm your host Daphne Allwine, and I'm going to cut through the noise, ditch the self-doubt and get honest about what it takes to live and lead with unapologetic confidence. Each week you'll hear unfiltered conversations, powerful stories, and even real-life strategies to help you take up space in your life, your work, and your world. So buckle up, because shrinking is not an option here. Let's dive in.

[00:00:56:07 - 00:01:02:06]
Daffney  Allwein
 Shrink the Podcast.

[00:01:03:08 - 00:01:11:22]
Daffney  Allwein
 And today we are joined by one of my personal heroes. This is Shelly McLaughlin, and she works with Pathfinders for Autism.

[00:01:13:05 - 00:01:56:13]
Daffney  Allwein
 Shelly's actually the director or the program director there, and it's a really incredible organization that is reshaping here in the DMV and reaching out in every aspect that maybe you wouldn't even imagine that this organization could be so impactful. They are elevating the face of law enforcement. They are educators to the education here in the DMV, and they are huge advocates and a huge resource. So we'll make sure that we give you some information about reaching out or even sharing and donating to an amazing cause.

[00:01:57:20 - 00:02:07:14]
Daffney  Allwein
 Now, the reason I'm really excited that Shelly is with me today is Shelly has stepped up for me. She has stepped up in my life.

[00:02:08:23 - 00:02:21:15]
Daffney  Allwein
 We had a situation where my daughter was in a school and there were children with autism, undiagnosed autism, and they needed some real resources.

[00:02:22:17 - 00:02:49:03]
Daffney  Allwein
 And Shelly's team stepped up and showed up in a really big way and made a really big impact in that school, not only for those families, but the school alike in giving this resource to the school. This is something that private schools or daycares, things don't typically have. And now I can tell you and attest to you how grateful they are to have had your team come and visit.

[00:02:50:08 - 00:03:59:00]
Daffney  Allwein
 So Shelly, thank you for that. And the second part is Shelly's team is doing some really incredible stuff. And we all have question marks when it comes to law, law enforcement and how things are rolling out. But Shelly is also responsible for my husband's program in his agency where they have rolled out this amazing program that just gives new life and new resources to officers alike about when someone is struggling with mental health or a autistic child or even an undiagnosed adult, they are offering these incredible resources so that when these people are being encountered, these law enforcement officers or officials have this whole new set of skills to really approach the person where they are and where they're coming from. So I'm an awe, I'm fangirling. Thank you for visiting me. What you need to know about Shelly though, she is a real hero. Even in her own life, Shelly has a autistic son of her own.

[00:04:00:17 - 00:04:29:20]
Daffney  Allwein
 And in hearing her story and getting to know her, she had the choice several times in her life from what I've heard to be a victim, to really have been a survivor or a victim. And she has this amazing energy, which she's about to unfold on you, that she shows up as a hero in every frame of her life. So Shelly, that was the longest intro I've ever given on a show, but totally, totally appropriate.

[00:04:29:20 - 00:04:33:07]
Shelly McLaughlin
 I told you, we're going to live up to this.

[00:04:34:07 - 00:04:39:22]
Shelly McLaughlin
 Exactly, thank you. You're so great. And I'll tell you what, we love with your husband,

[00:04:41:05 - 00:04:48:23]
Shelly McLaughlin
 bringing us in to be part of their crisis intervention, team training is an absolute joy for us.

[00:04:50:02 - 00:05:00:14]
Shelly McLaughlin
 We've taught over 20,000 officers, over 900 police classes, helping them better understand individuals with intellectual developmental disabilities.

[00:05:03:08 - 00:05:23:19]
Shelly McLaughlin
 And along with that too, we also teach individuals with developmental disabilities, how to be safe in the community, how to interact with police. For instance, I've run these mock traffic stop events all over the state. Your husband has come and observed at one of them.

[00:05:23:19 - 00:05:25:02]
Daffney  Allwein
 Always impressive.

[00:05:26:12 - 00:05:43:06]
Shelly McLaughlin
 Actually, we have opened those up because they don't teach, what do you do when you get pulled over? They don't teach that in driver's ed. So we've opened it up to everyone. Oh, wow, okay. Fully, everyone is welcome.

[00:05:44:16 - 00:05:48:22]
Shelly McLaughlin
 We have them coming up all over the state. They're listed on our website.

[00:05:50:04 - 00:06:05:20]
Shelly McLaughlin
 We, as a matter of fact, we had last week, I ran a mock traffic stop event and there was a 61 year old woman who came and she said, "I'm here because I've never been pulled over "and nobody's ever told me what to do "if I do get pulled over."

[00:06:05:20 - 00:06:08:14]
Daffney  Allwein
 What do I do? Like, what do I do if I get pulled over?

[00:06:08:14 - 00:06:12:04]
 (Laughing)

[00:06:12:04 - 00:06:25:05]
Shelly McLaughlin
 You know, we're trying to help the 16 year old girls so that they don't just cry hysterically when that happens. My daughter did that, so.

[00:06:25:05 - 00:06:33:05]
Daffney  Allwein
 Oh God, the first time I ever got pulled over, like all the things, you probably remember, I don't know. I've always been a perfect driver.

[00:06:34:08 - 00:07:05:08]
Daffney  Allwein
 No, it was like, I remember just like in that moment, like the gravity of like being pulled over and all I did, all I did was to intend over the speed limit in a rural area. I deserved it, right? But no one teaches you, that's absolutely true. And what a vulnerable place to be, right? Like you're isolated, right? You're in the car by yourself. You don't, like you don't, it's not a skill, right? So what's appropriate conduct? It's not a, it's more. Yeah, and it feels adversarial, right? It's more.

[00:07:05:08 - 00:07:10:10]
Shelly McLaughlin
 Yeah, it's more. People are being told. It's like, people just need to be told.

[00:07:10:10 - 00:07:19:23]
Daffney  Allwein
 Okay, I was like, that's it. We have to put a link for that training in because I think we all need that. It's like, how do we feel safe? How do we communicate effectively? How do we, yeah.

[00:07:19:23 - 00:07:42:16]
Daffney  Allwein
 they're helping a family or helping a child or maybe a lost child or a parent who had a mental health crisis, they have these physical tools, these things that they can use to communicate with children, to entertain them, to make them feel safe. Like you guys have thought about this. This is, you guys are like front runners understanding this.

[00:07:42:16 - 00:07:52:22]
Shelly McLaughlin
 I could not take credit for the, so we show them at all of our police trainings, but the Husband Institute for Autism,

[00:07:54:01 - 00:08:04:08]
Shelly McLaughlin
 they're the ones who created those. We are the ones who package them and they provide them free of charge for all law enforcement.

[00:08:04:08 - 00:08:17:23]
Daffney  Allwein
 We have to share that. We have to share that so that all agencies know that this is something available to them and they want to meet the public at the right, interval and the right intensity and that's huge. So we'll make sure we put their info in here as well.

[00:08:19:12 - 00:08:32:13]
Daffney  Allwein
 All right, Shelly, you're not just the face and you're not just the inspiration because you've had your own experience with autism. You have a 20 year old son, how old is he now?

[00:08:34:07 - 00:08:36:15]
Daffney  Allwein
 He's 23. Oh my God, okay.

[00:08:37:23 - 00:08:39:21]
Daffney  Allwein
 What's that like? What's that like to-- He's 20 years or--

[00:08:42:17 - 00:08:49:15]
Shelly McLaughlin
 I'll tell you what, it's like right now I can breathe with him.

[00:08:52:00 - 00:08:53:08]
Shelly McLaughlin
 When he was younger,

[00:08:58:04 - 00:09:06:07]
Shelly McLaughlin
 we knew he was not going to be successful in a public school setting because of the crowds, the chaos.

[00:09:07:09 - 00:09:18:12]
Shelly McLaughlin
 And so he had been kicked out of three preschools and the last preschool, the one that kept him,

[00:09:20:02 - 00:09:27:19]
Shelly McLaughlin
 his first day there, he was four years old, his first day there, he said to the owner, "I'm the bad kid in class."

[00:09:28:20 - 00:09:33:05]
Shelly McLaughlin
 And she looked at him and she said, "That ends today."

[00:09:34:05 - 00:09:40:22]
Shelly McLaughlin
 And they made such simple accommodations for him. When they would do circle time,

[00:09:41:22 - 00:09:56:03]
Shelly McLaughlin
 Hunter couldn't sit there in circle time, he couldn't. And so she didn't let him sit at the table, shoot him, do puzzles and whatever activities he wanted to do.

[00:09:57:12 - 00:10:09:21]
Shelly McLaughlin
 When the teacher would ask questions about a book she was reading or something, Hunter would call out all the right answers. So as long as he was given that accommodation, he could participate.

[00:10:11:14 - 00:10:15:19]
Shelly McLaughlin
 Something that simple, that other preschools just--

[00:10:17:00 - 00:10:33:02]
Shelly McLaughlin
 weren't willing to make those conditions. He did go to a private school for kindergarten in first grade, but then in first grade, by the spring of first grade,

[00:10:35:02 - 00:10:39:22]
Shelly McLaughlin
 we were no longer able to financially support that. It is, yeah. The tuition,

[00:10:41:05 - 00:10:44:07]
Shelly McLaughlin
 we're talking 25,000 a year.

[00:10:45:11 - 00:10:50:20]
Shelly McLaughlin
 And also they were not able to support his behaviors. He was throwing desks and chairs.

[00:10:52:05 - 00:10:54:19]
Shelly McLaughlin
 It only grows if they do. We were granted a-- Yeah.

[00:10:56:01 - 00:11:07:21]
Shelly McLaughlin
 Yes, and so we were granted a non-public status. So he went to the Kennedy Krieger School, second through fifth grade.

[00:11:09:18 - 00:11:12:07]
Shelly McLaughlin
 And that's something that our county had to pay for,

[00:11:13:12 - 00:11:14:21]
Shelly McLaughlin
 had to pay that tuition.

[00:11:19:09 - 00:11:23:06]
Shelly McLaughlin
 I believe it was the right setting initially for him.

[00:11:24:10 - 00:11:37:11]
Shelly McLaughlin
 He would have a very different opinion-- Interesting. Of that, and he is-- He didn't quite vote about that opinion, about why to him he thinks that was a bad decision.

[00:11:37:11 - 00:11:44:10]
Daffney  Allwein
 So putting him in a specialty school, he actually felt now as an adult, he's telling you that was not the right decision.

[00:11:46:12 - 00:11:52:08]
Shelly McLaughlin
 Yes, now as an adult, he says, you put me in a mental institution for school. Oh, God, yeah.

[00:11:54:11 - 00:11:56:08]
Daffney  Allwein
 There's some mom guilt, I know all about that.

[00:11:58:02 - 00:12:06:10]
Shelly McLaughlin
 Yeah, yeah, lots. And so then for sixth grade, we put him in a different non-public, it was not as restrictive.

[00:12:08:00 - 00:12:14:11]
Shelly McLaughlin
 He still to this day says he wishes I would have let him go to a mainstream public school.

[00:12:15:14 - 00:12:37:06]
Shelly McLaughlin
 Again, at those ages, I don't know how he would have even navigated a huge cafeteria of caves. Right, right, yeah. And I didn't have much faith that the public school would be able to adequately meet his needs. I worried about bullying. Sure.

[00:12:39:05 - 00:12:46:04]
Shelly McLaughlin
 So even though he says that he wishes that he had gone to a public school,

[00:12:47:07 - 00:12:55:17]
Shelly McLaughlin
 he went into, he was able to take multiple times the broadcasting class. That was at the,

[00:12:57:19 - 00:13:04:15]
Shelly McLaughlin
 which, and he could do some filmmaking and things in there. And he really developed.

[00:13:05:19 - 00:13:07:14]
Shelly McLaughlin
 Yeah. He found it.

[00:13:08:16 - 00:13:31:15]
Shelly McLaughlin
 So when he graduated, I tried to have him look at, there's a place Sheffield Institute for the Recording Arts. They have a school there. Oh, okay. It's a working school. And I tried to get him to look at it. And he kept telling me, no, no, no. Took me two years to get him to tour it.

[00:13:33:01 - 00:13:38:19]
Shelly McLaughlin
 Finally, he said to me when I brought it up again, and he said,

[00:13:40:17 - 00:13:44:12]
Shelly McLaughlin
 "I don't want to go to a place for people with disabilities."

[00:13:45:13 - 00:13:54:14]
Shelly McLaughlin
 And I stopped and I thought, what? And then I realized the institute is in the name. And I never considered that.

[00:13:54:14 - 00:14:01:03]
Daffney  Allwein
 Yeah, that that was, yeah. And I thought, He really did have a adverse reaction to that word. Yeah, to that, wow.

[00:14:02:14 - 00:14:03:21]
Daffney  Allwein
 So he went, he went.

[00:14:03:21 - 00:14:15:02]
Shelly McLaughlin
 And so I said, Yeah. He went, he toured it. I took him for the tour and the director for the Video Works Program is who gave us the tour.

[00:14:15:02 - 00:14:15:17]
Daffney  Allwein
 Yeah.

[00:14:15:17 - 00:14:19:13]
Shelly McLaughlin
 And as soon as Hunter walked in,

[00:14:20:14 - 00:14:48:09]
Shelly McLaughlin
 you could just see, it was like this, I'm home. And he and the director were able to talk tech, and they walked in, Hunter's like, Oh, I know that software. And they started talking about the software and started talking about all these technical things. And it was like, as he's talking, I'm like, Oh, we're signing papers before we leave. So he finished the Video Works Program. Yeah. And he,

[00:14:49:14 - 00:15:10:21]
Shelly McLaughlin
 now, so he finished that in April and now coming up in October, he's going to do the companion program, the Audio Works Program, because that really will help with film editing. Yeah. And so that's what he wants, he wants to do a film editor and quick shout out to moms, because my mom footed the bill.

[00:15:12:00 - 00:15:20:13]
Shelly McLaughlin
 So, you know, Yeah. Huge, grateful, grateful, the ends of the earth that she did that for him.

[00:15:20:13 - 00:15:32:11]
Daffney  Allwein
 We'll definitely give her a shout out, she deserves that. It takes, it's funny that you say that because it takes so much support and resources, right? And this is still a fairly new,

[00:15:34:06 - 00:15:59:11]
Daffney  Allwein
 I don't know, disability, I think we're calling it that, but everybody, and correct me if I'm wrong, because maybe I don't know as much about it, but autism presents differently in everybody. So even if you are a mom, a parent, a teacher, like autism doesn't look the same for almost anybody, right? It's such a unique condition or, yeah, so how did you know,

[00:16:00:20 - 00:16:08:17]
Daffney  Allwein
 I mean, you just, you had a PhD in your son, right? That's all you can really do, you had a PhD in your son and who he was, and that's, is that how you did it? Is that how you got through it?

[00:16:10:16 - 00:16:15:11]
Shelly McLaughlin
 Well, it was, I'll tell you what, the day that he was diagnosed,

[00:16:16:12 - 00:16:22:18]
Shelly McLaughlin
 there was a doctor who told me, the one who gave us the diagnosis form,

[00:16:23:19 - 00:16:31:04]
Shelly McLaughlin
 said to me, because as he's talking, tears are starting to roll down, because all of a sudden you're hit with this,

[00:16:32:13 - 00:16:37:06]
Shelly McLaughlin
 okay, what does this mean? This is life-altering news.

[00:16:38:15 - 00:16:47:22]
Shelly McLaughlin
 And the doctor looked at me and said, your son will never function in society and you need to accept that now.

[00:16:47:22 - 00:16:55:10]
Daffney  Allwein
 Oof, oof, okay, that was a pill, okay. How does that feel now, like thinking about that moment?

[00:16:57:22 - 00:17:01:11]
Shelly McLaughlin
 I so badly wanna take my son back to him and say-- You

[00:17:01:11 - 00:17:12:17]
Daffney  Allwein
 should, he's brilliant, like every story I've ever heard about Hunter is like sound engineering, like technology, like he's a genius in his own right.

[00:17:13:19 - 00:17:27:23]
Daffney  Allwein
 He just doesn't sit on the carpet with the other kids, right? Like big deal. So, all right, so you're gonna have your day in the sun with this doctor, assuming he's still in rotation. But I think that comes down to just misinformation, right?

[00:17:29:21 - 00:17:32:16]
Shelly McLaughlin
 I really hope he's not still practicing.

[00:17:32:16 - 00:17:58:18]
Daffney  Allwein
 Yes, we'll look him up later. Well, yeah, that might be a Google stock later. But isn't it amazing? What we know now about autism, right? And thank goodness for your organization too, because I think even then, like the information I had, right? Or even the few kids that you knew growing up probably fit in that category. Our understanding now is so different than it is today.

[00:18:00:23 - 00:19:37:16]
Shelly McLaughlin
 And we can find resources and information now. Whereas when we got that news, and we had the internet, so I could start looking, but it was that I don't know what to do next. Because when they give you the diagnosis, it's not like they say, okay, here's a manual. This is, here are the steps. This is what you should do. They, at least back then, now we have developed at work a what to do when you get the diagnosis kit. Now there are such research. Yes. But at the time, so I'll tell you what I did. What was my saving grace is the very next day I went, I hit Google and because I had been working in a different nonprofit in the field of disabilities, I was aware of autism societies. So I thought, I know they have chapters. Let me see if they have one in my county. They did, and I went, I started going to their meetings. And I was able to talk to other families who were going through the same thing. And I was able, you know, and we were able to share information. And at that, I had no information to give. I was just soaking up information and asking questions. And having that support of,

[00:19:38:22 - 00:19:56:04]
Shelly McLaughlin
 okay, I'm not the only one. Other families are surviving. Surviving, yep. And started becoming friends with these other families. And that made the biggest difference. And that is something that I tell every family when they're getting a diagnosis,

[00:19:57:06 - 00:20:16:00]
Shelly McLaughlin
 seek a local support group. And on our online provider database for Maryland, we have them listed. Oh, wow. Yeah. But, you know, outside of Maryland, you know, Google, you know, local support groups for autism. And there's also on Facebook, there's thousands of them.

[00:20:17:12 - 00:20:46:19]
Shelly McLaughlin
 Find your people. Because they'll share with you, what did they go through? What challenges did they have? What did they do? How did they get through school meetings? How did they find a doctor, a dentist, somebody that could cut hair? And again, those are things that we have in our provider directory. But if you're in, if you're not in Maryland and you don't have access to that type of directory,

[00:20:47:19 - 00:20:52:20]
Shelly McLaughlin
 go to other parents. Other parents will have the best information for you.

[00:20:52:20 - 00:21:18:09]
Daffney  Allwein
 That's huge. So just coming out of isolation, right? You're not the only one this is happening to, right? This is not just happening to you. There are other people out there. Because that would be distressing to me if I was in this bubble thinking that I have this situation and no one can relate to me. No one can actually help me through this. So that's sort of your mantra, right? It's like coming out of isolation, right?

[00:21:19:14 - 00:21:19:20]
Shelly McLaughlin
 Yes.

[00:21:21:04 - 00:21:23:03]
Shelly McLaughlin
 Find your people. I love it.

[00:21:26:03 - 00:21:30:03]
Shelly McLaughlin
 You can walk into a support group meeting and just break down in tears.

[00:21:31:03 - 00:21:35:19]
Shelly McLaughlin
 And you know that you're surrounded by people that are gonna help

[00:21:35:19 - 00:22:10:07]
Daffney  Allwein
 you get through this. Yeah, they've seen this. They've seen things happen. So that's huge. Because that's, I mean, that is the title of our show, right? Is like, you didn't shrink in that moment, right? You didn't say, okay, this is it. I have to like change my entire life. I have to move to another county. I have to whatever. There were definitely resources you had to seek out. But by you not shrinking in that moment, you not saying, I'm a victim. This is gonna be hard. The rest of my life is gonna be impacted. You found huge opportunity, right?

[00:22:12:18 - 00:22:19:15]
Daffney  Allwein
 Right. Have you always been this much of a badass or is this just based on becoming a mom?

[00:22:21:13 - 00:22:33:12]
Shelly McLaughlin
 Oh, well, I'd like to say that, but then there was a period of time where I did feel that like in a totally different situation,

[00:22:34:22 - 00:22:36:10]
Shelly McLaughlin
 an isolated victim.

[00:22:38:03 - 00:22:39:05]
Shelly McLaughlin
 And you know,

[00:22:41:01 - 00:22:46:11]
Shelly McLaughlin
 I should have taken the same approach, but I'll tell you when you're in a different situation

[00:22:47:20 - 00:23:02:10]
Shelly McLaughlin
 and I want to point out it is not my kid's dad. Oh, yeah, okay. My kid's dad, Jeff Knott, are great friends. He and I are great friends. We back each other.

[00:23:02:10 - 00:23:02:23]
Daffney  Allwein
 You're a good team.

[00:23:02:23 - 00:23:08:16]
Shelly McLaughlin
 We're, it is not him. It was somebody I met after him.

[00:23:10:18 - 00:23:14:23]
Daffney  Allwein
 So after having an autistic child, then this situation occurred.

[00:23:16:01 - 00:23:16:06]
Daffney  Allwein
 Yes.

[00:23:17:08 - 00:23:17:14]
Shelly McLaughlin
 Wow.

[00:23:19:01 - 00:23:25:16]
Shelly McLaughlin
 And so after the divorce, and I'll tell you, having a child with autism,

[00:23:26:22 - 00:23:44:14]
Shelly McLaughlin
 it's hard, it's stressful on marriages. It's very stressful because you're, when your child has behavior challenges, you're just trying to survive each day and you're trying to get through each therapy. Oh, God, yeah.

[00:23:45:16 - 00:23:52:01]
Shelly McLaughlin
 The falls from the school, you're just trying to survive.

[00:23:52:01 - 00:23:58:08]
Daffney  Allwein
 How do you even find time to date at that point? Like that's my, like, it's like, how did you segue into like,

[00:23:59:11 - 00:24:06:10]
Daffney  Allwein
 you're not together anymore, you're co-parenting, and then you're also thinking about dating. So that probably played a big lead into that too, right?

[00:24:08:00 - 00:24:11:10]
Shelly McLaughlin
 Well, the only reason I was able to date is because we had 50-50 custody.

[00:24:11:10 - 00:24:12:14]
Daffney  Allwein
 Nice, okay.

[00:24:12:14 - 00:24:16:11]
Shelly McLaughlin
 So it's like, okay. The days that I don't have the kids,

[00:24:18:18 - 00:24:20:16]
Shelly McLaughlin
 but unfortunately,

[00:24:22:10 - 00:24:29:09]
Shelly McLaughlin
 the first relationship out from the divorce was turned into a domestic abuse situation.

[00:24:30:20 - 00:24:36:05]
Shelly McLaughlin
 And it's the frog in the boiling water scenario.

[00:24:37:14 - 00:24:46:16]
Shelly McLaughlin
 You don't know anything about narcissistic personality disorder, and they come at you like the white knight. Oh, God, yeah.

[00:24:46:16 - 00:24:51:12]
Daffney  Allwein
 There's like the love bombing and all the, oh, but I'm the only one who can rescue you, yeah.

[00:24:53:10 - 00:25:06:22]
Shelly McLaughlin
 Yes, and you don't know the term love bombing. If you've never heard of narcissists, or if you're not familiar with narcissistic personality disorder, you don't recognize love bombing. You're just, it's so easy to fall into.

[00:25:06:22 - 00:25:31:09]
Daffney  Allwein
 Especially when you're a mom and you're tired and you have all these things going on, you're not expecting someone is manipulating you and grooming you for this situation. You're just like, wow, somebody's finally coming in and giving me some peace. I've already had these hard things happen in my life. I'm overcoming. Now this, like you said, white knight came in, but it didn't end up being a white knight.

[00:25:33:03 - 00:25:37:15]
Shelly McLaughlin
 Well, and it's gradual.

[00:25:39:12 - 00:25:56:13]
Shelly McLaughlin
 So it's little things and a little thing can be easy to overlook. And then it's this little thing. Okay, but it's still a little thing. And it's this little thing. And it's okay, that's still a little thing. All right, well now this thing's a little bigger, but it's gradual.

[00:25:57:14 - 00:26:07:00]
Shelly McLaughlin
 And by the time you realize what's really happening, it's too late. And the strategies that they use

[00:26:08:05 - 00:26:15:13]
Shelly McLaughlin
 to scare you and to control you and the things they do to keep you quiet.

[00:26:16:18 - 00:26:18:23]
Shelly McLaughlin
 And then they start isolating you.

[00:26:18:23 - 00:26:19:19]
Daffney  Allwein
 Oh gosh.

[00:26:19:19 - 00:26:25:03]
Shelly McLaughlin
 It got to the point where I was not even allowed to call my parents.

[00:26:27:11 - 00:26:50:16]
Shelly McLaughlin
 I was not allowed to have any communication with family, with my friends, and then he was going to my family and friends. And I didn't know this at the time and saying these horrible things about me to all of these people. This is textbook, right? And I'm not allowed. Yes. And I wasn't allowed to speak to any of them.

[00:26:52:09 - 00:27:06:01]
Shelly McLaughlin
 And so now the only voice you're hearing is that. Is that right? Is the only voice you're hearing. And you're not hearing anybody else to counter even your own.

[00:27:06:01 - 00:27:26:14]
Daffney  Allwein
 What's she saying? Right? Because even your own voice is just suppressed because you're like, no, I must be crazy. It must be me seeing this the wrong way, right? Can I point out too, a lot of times we think we think of domestic abuse and we think socioeconomics. We think about education. We think about geographics being like a thing.

[00:27:27:20 - 00:27:53:01]
Daffney  Allwein
 It happens everywhere. And it happens in different ways and levels. So just because somebody comes from a very effluent area, they have a really effluent job, they have a really important position, doesn't mean that they're not abusive and manipulative and narcissistic. And I think sometimes it makes those kind of people easier to hide in plain sight.

[00:27:55:09 - 00:28:05:06]
Shelly McLaughlin
 Right. And I have a master's degree. So I didn't think of myself as particularly dumb,

[00:28:06:16 - 00:28:15:15]
Shelly McLaughlin
 but he's telling me all the time how I wasn't smart about this. I didn't know this. And again, with the gaslighting too,

[00:28:16:20 - 00:28:29:02]
Shelly McLaughlin
 it starts to, a few years of this and you're believing it because nobody is countering that and you're believing it. And again, you're so afraid to say anything.

[00:28:30:05 - 00:28:42:08]
Shelly McLaughlin
 So when he left and it turned out that his girlfriend gave him an ultimatum to leave me. So actually that really, that was actually a blessing.

[00:28:44:08 - 00:28:55:12]
Shelly McLaughlin
 I went to the local domestic abuse center and they started asking questions and I'm like, how do you know this? How do you know that? How do you know that happened?

[00:28:56:14 - 00:29:07:07]
Shelly McLaughlin
 And then you start realizing, wait a minute, what? There's things written about this? Wait a minute, what? That's a tactic.

[00:29:08:11 - 00:29:20:08]
Shelly McLaughlin
 And so going to, well, the individual therapy there and the group therapy, we're hearing other people talk and you're like, what? How, wait a minute, that's exactly what happened.

[00:29:21:08 - 00:29:44:14]
Shelly McLaughlin
 Just to give you, just to give you some perspective on just how bad he is of a person. His attorney sent my attorney an email. Now keep in mind, I wasn't talking to people. So it was not known that I was going to this. There were maybe four people that knew that I was going to the domestic abuse center.

[00:29:44:14 - 00:29:47:04]
Daffney  Allwein
 Yeah, intimidation, there was no limits, huh?

[00:29:47:04 - 00:29:47:13]
Shelly McLaughlin
 Yeah.

[00:29:49:09 - 00:30:05:01]
Shelly McLaughlin
 His attorney told my attorney that they knew I was going there and that that could be damaging to his client's reputation and that if I didn't stop, they would seek legal action against me.

[00:30:05:01 - 00:30:25:06]
Daffney  Allwein
 So if you didn't stop getting the help you needed, if you didn't stop going to therapy, they were going to sue you. Okay, yeah, that's pretty much, that doesn't get any, yeah, more deliberate than that, but I need someone to feel like they have no options. I need to isolate somebody beyond control,

[00:30:26:12 - 00:30:39:12]
Daffney  Allwein
 beyond even reason. I can't believe an attorney would actually approach with that, but I guess my other question is like, what was that break moment for you? Like, what was the moment that you're like, I can't shrink anymore. I can't possibly, I can't do this.

[00:30:42:05 - 00:30:51:12]
Shelly McLaughlin
 Well, it's been years, for years I was still afraid,

[00:30:52:17 - 00:31:01:04]
Shelly McLaughlin
 because every now and then he would still pop up. Last year, my daughter's not Facebook with him.

[00:31:02:11 - 00:31:04:07]
Daffney  Allwein
 Here we go, this is textbook, yeah, go ahead.

[00:31:06:10 - 00:31:11:08]
Shelly McLaughlin
 Last year, last year, now he's been gone since, you know, the last year, he's been gone since the last year. Last year, now he's been gone since 2017.

[00:31:11:08 - 00:31:13:04]
Daffney  Allwein
 Oh my God, okay.

[00:31:13:04 - 00:31:20:07]
Shelly McLaughlin
 But last year, message, hey, you know, it's been a long time, how are you? And she's like,

[00:31:21:07 - 00:31:28:04]
Shelly McLaughlin
 what the fuck? She goes, oh, I'm gonna respond. I'm like, no, don't do that. Don't respond. Oh, that me, I'm like, no.

[00:31:29:07 - 00:31:41:17]
Shelly McLaughlin
 And I said, he only did because he knew you would tell me and he was hoping that that would put me in pack. Yes, yes. As a threat, like, I can still get to your family.

[00:31:41:17 - 00:32:53:12]
Daffney  Allwein
 He's, and clearly he's still threatened by you, otherwise he would just let you out of his entrapment. Can I tell you though that like, I know we talked a little about this before, but what you're describing, like I said, is not even specific to women. Like I've had clients who have dated people and I'm talking men and the person they broke up with, who obviously had narcissistic traits and tendencies and would move apartment buildings to follow that person. And they would find ways, like you said, reach out to their children through, right? Any way to sort of stay in, create that, right? And this person was terrified to be at a restaurant with anybody knew that they were dating or with because of that exact situation. This person is a bona fide narcissist and abusive, manipulative, but they hide it so well in their charming exterior that it just seems like a casual, "Hey, I'm checking in on you." When we know that that's textbook for, "I'm keeping tabs on you and I want you to know I'm still watching you." Yeah. Mm-hmm. Oh. Yep.

[00:32:55:14 - 00:32:58:07]
Daffney  Allwein
 Yeah, you are, this is what I mean. And you know what it's like. Yeah.

[00:33:00:12 - 00:33:03:10]
Daffney  Allwein
 This is what I mean by you being my personal hero. Go ahead. Yeah.

[00:33:05:03 - 00:33:22:12]
Shelly McLaughlin
 Well, I, you know, it, I was living in a black hole for a long time, you know, just in fear, feeling like it would just, it takes you to a really bad place. Yeah. And it's, I wish,

[00:33:23:18 - 00:33:27:15]
Shelly McLaughlin
 I wish that someone else knew what was happening.

[00:33:27:15 - 00:33:28:06]
Daffney  Allwein
 Yeah.

[00:33:28:06 - 00:33:39:16]
Shelly McLaughlin
 And could have taken me out of that isolation because maybe I wouldn't have gotten so desperate. Yeah.

[00:33:40:17 - 00:33:45:15]
Shelly McLaughlin
 Yeah. It was, it was, it was hard. I didn't want to be here anymore.

[00:33:46:19 - 00:34:04:08]
Shelly McLaughlin
 And I really wish somebody had known. Yeah. So that they could have said, "This, this is what you're experiencing. This is what he is. These are the tactics. This is textbook.

[00:34:04:08 - 00:34:05:04]
Daffney  Allwein
 Yeah.

[00:34:05:04 - 00:34:18:13]
Shelly McLaughlin
 And we need to help get you out." Yeah. And I think-- That's what women, they need to recognize that what's happening, well, and men too, recognize what's happening

[00:34:19:20 - 00:34:27:07]
Shelly McLaughlin
 and not, not sink into that isolation that they want to put you in.

[00:34:28:20 - 00:34:41:21]
Shelly McLaughlin
 Talking to somebody, even, even at the risk of knowing that, you know, this could be dangerous that I'm talking to somebody. They want you to believe that.

[00:34:41:21 - 00:34:45:19]
Daffney  Allwein
 Yes. Right. But somehow you're hurting them by telling people. Yeah.

[00:34:45:19 - 00:34:51:10]
Shelly McLaughlin
 And letting other people know what this person really is.

[00:34:51:10 - 00:34:51:19]
Daffney  Allwein
 Yeah.

[00:34:53:09 - 00:34:55:07]
Shelly McLaughlin
 What's all the difference in the world.

[00:34:55:07 - 00:35:25:23]
Daffney  Allwein
 Shelly, if you could look back now, because I mean, you're in a great place and thank God you're still here because we need you. And obviously we need you on this earth. You have an amazing voice and we're going to do a flex-off later too, because I've seen your gym retain. But the truth is what, like looking back now, let's say, let's say, I'm your girlfriend. You see me dating somebody, right? What are three flags that you wish you now could say, these are three flags. Please look out for these things.

[00:35:27:17 - 00:35:29:18]
Shelly McLaughlin
 Right. Well, I would look for the love bombing.

[00:35:31:19 - 00:35:47:06]
Shelly McLaughlin
 Look for, hey, why is he coming on so strong, so fast? Why is he promising you the world so fast? You know, why is he these gifts? Why is he pointing that out?

[00:35:48:15 - 00:35:50:21]
Shelly McLaughlin
 Something else is the control.

[00:35:52:21 - 00:36:00:15]
Shelly McLaughlin
 The, you know, whether they're looking at your social media, who's that guy? Why'd he come out on the post? Oh, yep.

[00:36:01:20 - 00:36:21:12]
Shelly McLaughlin
 Or you go out with your friends. Well, who are you going out with? Well, what guys are hitting on you? That was something else that happened is because I teach police classes, it was, and back then to help me to state mandate, I was teaching police classes every single day for a couple of years.

[00:36:22:12 - 00:36:25:12]
Shelly McLaughlin
 We were covering the whole day, you know, all the big agencies.

[00:36:27:09 - 00:36:35:07]
Shelly McLaughlin
 And every day after work, who hit on you? Nobody hit on me. Who hit on you? Nobody. You're lying. Who hit on you?

[00:36:35:07 - 00:36:44:13]
Daffney  Allwein
 So in like extreme, extreme insecurity, right? Jealousy. That's a big flag, right? Sometimes we think that's cute when somebody's jealous. It's not cute.

[00:36:46:12 - 00:36:52:23]
Shelly McLaughlin
 No, no, there's nothing cute about it. And then, and then that other piece of,

[00:36:54:09 - 00:37:26:00]
Shelly McLaughlin
 are you still allowed to have your friends? Are you encouraged to have your friends? Or do they, and are, is that person saying all these negative things about you to your friends? Yeah. Yeah. You know, are they, are they slowly trying to persuade your family and friends that, you know, Oh, listen to that person because...

[00:37:26:00 - 00:37:28:08]
Daffney  Allwein
 I'm the authority. I'm her spokesperson.

[00:37:29:19 - 00:37:40:18]
Daffney  Allwein
 Yeah. You're a tough cookie. I'm just vain. And here's the thing. Like I have a little bit of experience in the arenas that you're talking about and personally.

[00:37:41:23 - 00:38:03:04]
Daffney  Allwein
 And luckily I had some experience early on in childhood where I could recognize someone's behavior as being narcissistic. And when the dating thing happened and I know I recognized the person I was dating and I could, could identify a lot better. So these are horrible circumstances.

[00:38:05:07 - 00:38:59:08]
Daffney  Allwein
 But it's one of those things where once you know, you see it and you cannot unsee it. And I'm so appreciative that you're sharing your story with people because it's like you said, frog in water, frog in boiling water. You don't see it unless you've had some experience first with this person's blow ups and their, their, their situation that you need a friend. You need an outside perspective. You need this podcast, right? To let you know it's not in your head. It really is happening and do not isolate yourself. Do not. That is your lifeline. And I, I feel like that's our theme today, right? Is that you, when it came to autism, the way that you mom skilled it up and you up skilled it and you are still killing it as a mom is you were not in isolation. And now you're doing that for other people, which is huge. And in this domestic abuse situation,

[00:39:00:12 - 00:39:15:12]
Daffney  Allwein
 you can see that. Thank God that you see these flags now and you can see a friend who's struggling or their personalities changing or they're less available or they need to come with a sponsor every time they have a, have a social event, right?

[00:39:17:03 - 00:39:33:23]
Shelly McLaughlin
 Or if you're out, um, you know, I had a, you know, I have a friend who we would, um, she's not dating him anymore, but yeah, football. I'm a huge, as I told you, when we first jumped on, I had to, I've got the NFL network playing in the background. I had to turn it down.

[00:39:35:03 - 00:39:39:04]
Shelly McLaughlin
 Football is, you know, I hate the weather that goes with football, but I love the sport.

[00:39:40:11 - 00:40:07:23]
Shelly McLaughlin
 And we would, and you know, a group of us girls made it our routine for every events game. We go out and watch, watch the games and this guy was calling her multiple times while we were at the game. And it's like, why, why is being so troll and then telling her, you know, I'm just making sure you're not hitting on any guy, you know, no guys are hitting on you.

[00:40:07:23 - 00:40:10:19]
Daffney  Allwein
 That's gotta be the first thing, right?

[00:40:11:20 - 00:40:23:10]
Daffney  Allwein
 You're a good friend. You're an amazing friend. And thank goodness you have this experience and you're not afraid to talk about it because people need to hear this. People need to know that. Not now. Yeah. I was gonna say, I was like,

[00:40:24:10 - 00:40:41:13]
Daffney  Allwein
 thank you for not shrinking. Thank you for not shrinking. We need you and we need the, like these stories because you're the best friend everybody needs, right? You're the best friend that everybody needs to look out for them. And I hope everybody else can step up as much as, as much as Shelly as a friend today.

[00:40:41:13 - 00:40:51:19]
Shelly McLaughlin
 That is what I would say is I'm trying to be the person that other people have been for me.

[00:40:52:20 - 00:41:14:18]
Shelly McLaughlin
 So once, once friends knew what was happening and again, I kept everything very small, but that small group who after the fact, you know, when I was, you know, dealing with things, I am so grateful for that. And so I just, I just want to help, whether it's in the autism world, you know, being an autism, you know,

[00:41:14:18 - 00:42:18:17]